Curse

ischuros · Dec 13, 2006, 05:22 PM // 17:22

In this months edition of PC Gamer (Uk version) there is a review of nightfall. In it, it quotes Jeff Strain when he said that |GW would outsell WoW, seeing as GW is a complete one off product, not arequiring a subscription. That prophecy (no pun intended), failed to come through, but Pc gamer continued to go on to say that 'I wished he had been right....... GW is, and always has been, a better designed game [than WoW]' The next line states that Gw is a very different animal than WoW, so some solice may be garnered for WoW fans there.

The reviewer was Kieron Gillen,and Nightfall got 89%, the highest score a new game recieved in the issue, beating Splinter Cell Double Agent and ArchLord (nearly doubling it's score, and the only other new MMO reviewed).

Well I just wanted to share the news, and hopefully not fan the flames of WoW v GW too much, just interesting to know we're right :P.

brokenmonkey · Dec 13, 2006, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Yes! Anet, NCsoft, you rock.

Domino · Dec 13, 2006, 05:34 PM // 17:34

You can't say GW is a "better designed game" than WoW.... who makes the standards? If your standards are only "No monthly fee", then of course, any game without a monthly fee is going to be "better" than something else.... if your standards are auction houses and a massive uninstanced world, then WoW is going to appeal.

bottom line, play WoW or GW, stop comparing them... it's annoying and infantile.

ischuros · Dec 13, 2006, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Design is different from business model

penguo · Dec 13, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

WoW and Guildwars are entirely different.....for the millionth time. Anet themselves have said Guildwars is basically not an mmo, but a CCORPG. I don't remember exactly what it means but....If I want to grind a rogue to level whatever, stealth and gank people while they are killing a monster I will pay World Of Warcraft. If I want better pvp (in my opinion) and actually having to work on a build I will play Guildwars. Apples and Orangers. I play both consequentially.

I could log on to the free Auto Assault I got when I bought my second account, and pay another 15 dollars a month, and actually compare the two (WoW and AA. somewhat). People will be too influenced by the pricing and won't see past....OMG! 15 dollars a month.

Two April Mornings · Dec 13, 2006, 05:45 PM // 17:45

very nice.

Clawdius_Talonious · Dec 13, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

You can't say GW is a "better designed game" than WoW.... who makes the standards?

I believe the reference is probably talking about the gameplay itself, WoW just rehashed the same old MMO formula, and while they did a good job of it they didn't bring anything new to the table. Guild Wars on the other hand brought several new concepts to the table, besides simply not charging a monthly fee. The balanced high end gear stats and limited skill use in single missions/instances, for example, make the game more strategic than a game where you can cover all your bases and combat any sort of foe through various means.

But of course you're right, it's a rather vague statement, and a matter of opinion more than anything else.

Numa Pompilius · Dec 14, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Guildwars rocks.
I still remember how utterly floored I was, firing up Prophecies for the first time, and seeing the sun in the trees.

Also, since I'm originally a single-player RPG'er, the solo-ability of GW appeals to me. If I couldn't solo, I'd not play it. Even though I mostly play with guildies.

Riken Chrono · Dec 14, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

i always find it weird because Anet are just people fired from blizzard i think...people that made WoW... They got together to make Anet

Loviatar · Dec 14, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riken Chrono

i always find it weird because Anet are just people fired from blizzard i think...people that made WoW... They got together to make Anet

these just people thought they could do better on their own.

fired?......what a laugh

Quote:

Mike O'Brien, Founder and Programmer, was also a company director of Blizzard, where he worked for four and one-half years. He was most recently the team lead and lead programmer of Warcraft III, and personally developed the game's 3D rendering engine. Mike was the original creator and architect of Battle.net and was lead programmer on that project. He was also a senior programmer on StarCraft and Diablo, as well as the author of the network code for both games, and was a programmer on Warcraft II. Mike was featured as one of the 25 most influential people in the game industry in PC Gamer's September 1999 cover story, "Game Gods."

Patrick Wyatt, Founder and Programmer, was previously Blizzard Entertainment's Vice President of Research and Development. He was most recently the team lead and lead programmer of Battle.net. Previously, Pat was a senior programmer on both StarCraft and Diablo, and wrote the multiplayer code for both games. He was also a producer and senior programmer on Warcraft II, for which he wrote both the networking and multiplayer code, and producer and lead programmer for Warcraft I. Pat also worked on Lost Vikings, Battle Chess, Rock and Roll Racing, Death and Return of Superman, and Justice League Task Force. Pat was employed at Blizzard more than eight years.

Jeff Strain, Founder and Programmer, was the team lead and lead programmer of Blizzard's massively multiplayer role-playing game, World of Warcraft. He was also a senior programmer on both Warcraft III and StarCraft, and a programmer on Diablo. Jeff was the creator of the StarCraft Campaign Editor and was employed at Blizzard for four years.

Sekkira · Dec 14, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

That passage didn't give any indication to whether they were fired or left.

zankoku · Dec 14, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

IIRC, Patrick Wyatt, Mike O'Brien, and Jeff Strain left Battle.net to form TriForge. They then became Arena.net and ANet was eventually bought up by NCSoft.

Here's an article where Jeff Strain talks briefly about leaving Battle.net: http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/600/600836p1.html

Quote:

Jeff Strain, one of the men who came up with the idea behind Battle.net, now CEO of Arena.net had this to say. "When we left Blizzard, we didn't have any hard feeling towards Mike and the managment in place today. Vivendi was looking to sell the company and we didn't feel very secure. We moved on (hey, even Bill Roper left) and created Guild Wars, a massively multiplayer RPG which is almost the polar opposite of World of WarCraft.

Kalki · Dec 14, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

GW won't achieve total victory until it has more players than WoW (something I'm hoping for one day

). Finally a reviewer of Guild Wars that gets it absolutely right. I really want to read the whole review, but I don't know where I'll be able to find a copy in America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

You can't say GW is a "better designed game" than WoW.... who makes the standards?

I played both games for more than 2,000 hours each. I think I'm entitled to an opinion of which one is designed better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

If your standards are only "No monthly fee", then of course, any game without a monthly fee is going to be "better" than something else....

Money has nothing to do with it. I would pay-to-play Guild Wars, but wouldn't play WoW at this point even if it were free. I'm probably in the minority with that opinion, because everyone likes to follow the popularity contest in MMO's. I'm not joking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

If your standards are auction houses and a massive uninstanced world, then WoW is going to appeal.

I can't really argue with you about auction houses. It's something that Guild Wars doesn't have, and I hope never has. If people need an auction house to enjoy an MMO, than WoW is better for those people. I like the instant gratification of the Traders in Guild Wars, and the global market (it needs to be expanded though). In WoW if you really want an item right now you're at the mercy of the sellers buyout price, and you can only trade with people on your server.

I don't really see the issue as instanced or uninstanced. For me it's a question of "which one is more immersive?". Ok walking through a portal breaks immersion, but so does corpse camping, mob stealing, chest stealing break immersion. One of the main reasons I gave up on WoW was because 24/7 Chinese farmers weren't being banned after I repeatedly reported them, and gathering Arcanite Crystals for my axe was taking much longer than it should have. 99% of WoW's end-game takes place in an instance anyway. Onyxia, Molten Core, Zul'Gurub, etc... are all instanced zones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domino

bottom line, play WoW or GW, stop comparing them... it's annoying and infantile.

Both games are online multiplayer fantasy RPG's with huge worlds, that both strive for immersion and team work, although they might use slightly different techniques to achieve the goal? Why shouldn't they be compared to each other?

MerLock · Dec 14, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Don't remember anything about Jeff Strain saying Gw's would outsell wow. From all the reviews I read before Prophecies came out, I just remember him beating around the bush about it and would never forcast sales of Gw's to WoW. His tone was as if Gw's did nearly as good as WoW that it would be a big success but don't remember him making a direct statement saying it would outsell WoW.

Sanji · Dec 14, 2006, 07:59 AM // 07:59

I really find it amazing how rabidly video gamers will pit Video Games and Companies against each other.

"Haha, the corporation I give my money to makes more than yours!" really stings in a "My dad can kick your dad's ass" sort of way.

garethporlest18 · Dec 14, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Sanji for the same reason people do that with sports teams, or whatever else you can. Everything and I mean everything is a competition. Having babies, life, eating, drinking, dying. Everything.

It would be cool to beat out WoW and gain more people from that, so more people are around. But it doesn't really matter, I mean WoW isn't making GW worse or anything and it's not like most of the player base is leaving for it. But since both have features certain people like, one person will like one more than the other so nothing you can do.

Azadaleou · Dec 14, 2006, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Hey Kalki,

I think in many ways WoW and GW are comparable. After playing WoW I think GW is perhaps the closest thing comparable to it. There are a lot of similar features: The talent system is like similar to the attribute system, battlegrounds are similar to alliance battles, warriors use rage like warriors in gw use adrenaline and rouges use combos like sins use combos. That is just to name a few things off hand.

I think one of the main differences between wow and gw is obviously the persistent world vs gw instance world. But at the end your right, the endgame of wow and gw are basically the same except you get there faster in gw and you experience the game from a different classes perspective a lot quicker without having to grind your way back up. This also creates a problem that is ever present in gw, the lack of depth. In many respects gw is very very shallow in comparison to other mmos. The pvp system no doubt is deep and hands down the best I've ever seen. But the character development, community and your overall interaction with the environment and people are really lacking. There is no feel of accomplishment for a great portion of things done in gw, a majority of the aspects in game are for show and reap no true rewards. Like the title system for example, you get a title then what? Instead of opening up more things for you getting the title, thats about all you get.(I know one or two titles have minimal rewards..). In WoW you can points earn through factions/skills and pvp can be put towards lots of things that are rewarding for the player. There can never be any epic items in game or anything done outside of the balance in the gw universe. And that too starts to add to the no depth problem.

I think with the addition of reconnects and the lfg system it will start to form some structure and perhaps a community in game. Because I hate to say but there is a greater sense of community in the gw forums than in the actual game. It doesn't matter how many expansions they add, unless they start to work toward solving the lack of depth problem in the game. Every expansion will fall a short and the community will ask for more. Yeah I know the expansions are good, but only for a short while.

I personally wouldn't pay to for gw if Anet decided to make it p2p. The game is much much to shallow for a monthly fee. I still like the game but I feel there is so much more they can do besides add new professions and skills.

arcanemacabre · Dec 14, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Everything and I mean everything is a competition. Having babies, life, eating, drinking, dying. Everything.

Wow......

Hand of Ruin · Dec 14, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

They are both excellent games...

Westofeden · Dec 14, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

<3 Anet.